shoebot android someday?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

shoebot android someday?

francesco fantoni
Some very early, lazy and useless notes and suggestions about a possible
port of shoebot to android.

With the development of the scripting layer for android going on
( http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a functional
python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to be
possible someday to have shoebot working on google's mobile os.
Actually I can't imagine no real use or need, let's say it's just for
fun ;)

obviously cairo has not been ported to android, and probably never will
(way too heavy and complex),
and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would probably require the cairo
canvas to be replaced by something else.
It seems android uses skia ( http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
level library for 2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even exposed
through NDK and, more important, at present it has no python bindings,
though it seems it is in their roadmap.
I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to re-implement with skia
(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)

Another option I thought of could be openvg
( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
The most complete open source implementation I know of is ShivaVG
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's built on top of OpenGL,
and a port to android, though not yet existing, could be done using
OpenGL ES, and therefore being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
I tried an attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in GLES
of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts of
it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task far too complex
for me.
There is a commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an experimental
port to android
(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that I
was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said it is
commercial).
The nice aspect is that it already exists a project that provides python
bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have not
tested it yet.

I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for replacing
cairo on android that I didn't think of.

All of the shoebot gui of course would need a rewrite as well, as of
course there won't be a gtk environment, but simple gui with python is
already possible on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be a
possibility on android.

Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already (PIL
maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at all.

best, francesco





_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

francesco fantoni
I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I had not noticed before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to android could be done after all, though probably not so easily...


"architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

>Some very early, lazy and useless notes and suggestions about a possible
>port of shoebot to android.
>
>With the development of the scripting layer for android going on
>( http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a functional
>python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to be
>possible someday to have shoebot working on google's mobile os.
>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need, let's say it's just for
>fun ;)
>
>obviously cairo has not been ported to android, and probably never will
>(way too heavy and complex),
>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would probably require the cairo
>canvas to be replaced by something else.
>It seems android uses skia ( http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
>level library for 2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
>replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even exposed
>through NDK and, more important, at present it has no python bindings,
>though it seems it is in their roadmap.
>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to re-implement with skia
>(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)
>
>Another option I thought of could be openvg
>( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
>The most complete open source implementation I know of is ShivaVG
>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's built on top of OpenGL,
>and a port to android, though not yet existing, could be done using
>OpenGL ES, and therefore being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
>I tried an attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in GLES
>of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts of
>it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task far too complex
>for me.
>There is a commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an experimental
>port to android
>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that I
>was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said it is
>commercial).
>The nice aspect is that it already exists a project that provides python
>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have not
>tested it yet.
>
>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for replacing
>cairo on android that I didn't think of.
>
>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a rewrite as well, as of
>course there won't be a gtk environment, but simple gui with python is
>already possible on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be a
>possibility on android.
>
>Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already (PIL
>maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at all.
>
>best, francesco
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Shoebot-devel mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net

----
Francesco Fantoni Architetto
via s.giacomo, 38
41121 modena / italia
-- --
ph. & fax.: +39059217554
web: www.hv-a.com
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

Sebastian Oliva
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Architetto Francesco Fantoni
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I had not noticed before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to android could be done after all, though probably not so easily...
>
>
> "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>>Some very early, lazy and useless notes and suggestions about a possible
>>port of shoebot to android.
>>
>>With the development of the scripting layer for android going on
>>( http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a functional
>>python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to be
>>possible someday to have shoebot working on google's mobile os.
>>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need, let's say it's just for
>>fun ;)
>>
>>obviously cairo has not been ported to android, and probably never will
>>(way too heavy and complex),
>>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would probably require the cairo
>>canvas to be replaced by something else.
>>It seems android uses skia ( http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
>>level library for 2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
>>replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even exposed
>>through NDK and, more important, at present it has no python bindings,
>>though it seems it is in their roadmap.
>>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to re-implement with skia
>>(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)
>>
>>Another option I thought of could be openvg
>>( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
>>The most complete open source implementation I know of is ShivaVG
>>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's built on top of OpenGL,
>>and a port to android, though not yet existing, could be done using
>>OpenGL ES, and therefore being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
>>I tried an attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in GLES
>>of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts of
>>it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task far too complex
>>for me.
>>There is a commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
>>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an experimental
>>port to android
>>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that I
>>was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said it is
>>commercial).
>>The nice aspect is that it already exists a project that provides python
>>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
>>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have not
>>tested it yet.
>>
>>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for replacing
>>cairo on android that I didn't think of.
>>
>>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a rewrite as well, as of
>>course there won't be a gtk environment, but simple gui with python is
>>already possible on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
>>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be a
>>possibility on android.
>>
>>Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already (PIL
>>maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at all.
>>
>>best, francesco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Shoebot-devel mailing list
>>[hidden email]
>>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>
> ----
> Francesco Fantoni Architetto
> via s.giacomo, 38
> 41121 modena / italia
> --      --
> ph. & fax.: +39059217554
> web: www.hv-a.com
> _______________________________________________
> Shoebot-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>

I think an easier way would it be to use
http://organisms.be/NodeBox_for_OpenGL as a base
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

francesco fantoni
cool!
wasn't there already an attempt to port shoebot on pyglet?

f.




Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 13.54 -0600, Sebastian Oliva ha scritto:

> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Architetto Francesco Fantoni
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I had not noticed before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to android could be done after all, though probably not so easily...
> >
> >
> > "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >
> >>Some very early, lazy and useless notes and suggestions about a possible
> >>port of shoebot to android.
> >>
> >>With the development of the scripting layer for android going on
> >>( http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a functional
> >>python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to be
> >>possible someday to have shoebot working on google's mobile os.
> >>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need, let's say it's just for
> >>fun ;)
> >>
> >>obviously cairo has not been ported to android, and probably never will
> >>(way too heavy and complex),
> >>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would probably require the cairo
> >>canvas to be replaced by something else.
> >>It seems android uses skia ( http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
> >>level library for 2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
> >>replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even exposed
> >>through NDK and, more important, at present it has no python bindings,
> >>though it seems it is in their roadmap.
> >>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to re-implement with skia
> >>(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)
> >>
> >>Another option I thought of could be openvg
> >>( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
> >>The most complete open source implementation I know of is ShivaVG
> >>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's built on top of OpenGL,
> >>and a port to android, though not yet existing, could be done using
> >>OpenGL ES, and therefore being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
> >>I tried an attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in GLES
> >>of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts of
> >>it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task far too complex
> >>for me.
> >>There is a commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
> >>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an experimental
> >>port to android
> >>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that I
> >>was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said it is
> >>commercial).
> >>The nice aspect is that it already exists a project that provides python
> >>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
> >>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have not
> >>tested it yet.
> >>
> >>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for replacing
> >>cairo on android that I didn't think of.
> >>
> >>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a rewrite as well, as of
> >>course there won't be a gtk environment, but simple gui with python is
> >>already possible on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
> >>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be a
> >>possibility on android.
> >>
> >>Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already (PIL
> >>maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at all.
> >>
> >>best, francesco
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Shoebot-devel mailing list
> >>[hidden email]
> >>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >
> > ----
> > Francesco Fantoni Architetto
> > via s.giacomo, 38
> > 41121 modena / italia
> > --      --
> > ph. & fax.: +39059217554
> > web: www.hv-a.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >
>
> I think an easier way would it be to use
> http://organisms.be/NodeBox_for_OpenGL as a base
> _______________________________________________
> Shoebot-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net


_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

francesco fantoni
though pyglet need ctypes that at present is not part of SL4A python


Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 22.48 +0200, architetto francesco fantoni
ha scritto:

> cool!
> wasn't there already an attempt to port shoebot on pyglet?
>
> f.
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 13.54 -0600, Sebastian Oliva ha scritto:
> > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Architetto Francesco Fantoni
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I had not noticed before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to android could be done after all, though probably not so easily...
> > >
> > >
> > > "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> > >
> > >>Some very early, lazy and useless notes and suggestions about a possible
> > >>port of shoebot to android.
> > >>
> > >>With the development of the scripting layer for android going on
> > >>( http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a functional
> > >>python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to be
> > >>possible someday to have shoebot working on google's mobile os.
> > >>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need, let's say it's just for
> > >>fun ;)
> > >>
> > >>obviously cairo has not been ported to android, and probably never will
> > >>(way too heavy and complex),
> > >>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would probably require the cairo
> > >>canvas to be replaced by something else.
> > >>It seems android uses skia ( http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
> > >>level library for 2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
> > >>replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even exposed
> > >>through NDK and, more important, at present it has no python bindings,
> > >>though it seems it is in their roadmap.
> > >>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to re-implement with skia
> > >>(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)
> > >>
> > >>Another option I thought of could be openvg
> > >>( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
> > >>The most complete open source implementation I know of is ShivaVG
> > >>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's built on top of OpenGL,
> > >>and a port to android, though not yet existing, could be done using
> > >>OpenGL ES, and therefore being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
> > >>I tried an attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in GLES
> > >>of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts of
> > >>it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task far too complex
> > >>for me.
> > >>There is a commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
> > >>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an experimental
> > >>port to android
> > >>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that I
> > >>was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said it is
> > >>commercial).
> > >>The nice aspect is that it already exists a project that provides python
> > >>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
> > >>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have not
> > >>tested it yet.
> > >>
> > >>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for replacing
> > >>cairo on android that I didn't think of.
> > >>
> > >>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a rewrite as well, as of
> > >>course there won't be a gtk environment, but simple gui with python is
> > >>already possible on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
> > >>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be a
> > >>possibility on android.
> > >>
> > >>Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already (PIL
> > >>maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at all.
> > >>
> > >>best, francesco
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > >>[hidden email]
> > >>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Francesco Fantoni Architetto
> > > via s.giacomo, 38
> > > 41121 modena / italia
> > > --      --
> > > ph. & fax.: +39059217554
> > > web: www.hv-a.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> > >
> >
> > I think an easier way would it be to use
> > http://organisms.be/NodeBox_for_OpenGL as a base
> > _______________________________________________
> > Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shoebot-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net


_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

Stuart Axon
> From: "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>"
><[hidden email]>

> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 9:55:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [shoebot-devel] shoebot android someday?
>
> though pyglet need ctypes that at present is not part of SL4A  python
>
Also it's for Opengl, not Opengl ES as android needs.



> Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 22.48 +0200, architetto  francesco fantoni
> ha scritto:
> > cool!
> > wasn't there already an  attempt to port shoebot on pyglet?
> >
> > f.
> >

A while back I got it rendering to a window in pyglet, but not
really usable     (and still using cairo for everything).

Still, in future it would be useful to be able to render onto
OpenGL textures this way.



I've had a bit of a look at the nodebox code (just a little mind),
and it looks the way fill, stroke etc are just imported and share
state through global variables.

In future I'd like to be able to do things like call one bot from
another (e.g. render a frame of another bot into rectangle).

I think with the nodebox approach state will be leaked and this
won't be possible (without having seperate python processes).

Now... I might be wrong and not actually understand their
architecture, but if I'm right I prefer our approach using classes.


Anyway... it might not matter, as at the moment we don't have a
functioning release...but:
It would be cool if in future we
could prove a nice architecture for supporting stuff like
drivers (e.g. for jython/pyglet) and solve the problem of
fragmentation of the nodeboxes :)

[And not to forget; the ability to add different grammars
too].



Oh - while I'm braindumping this:  
Something else to look at are the different ways of using
nodebox-gl:

draw(canvas):
   fill(...)

And nodebox-1/shoebot:

draw():
   fill()


Actually canvas is not a bad abstraction and we might want
to consider it for a 'pure python' mode.
We'd really want to reconcile this if we want to make all
the libraries shared.



> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 13.54 -0600, Sebastian Oliva ha  scritto:
> > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Architetto Francesco  Fantoni
> > > <[hidden email]>  wrote:
> > > > I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I had  not noticed
>before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to android could be  done after
>all, though probably not so easily...
> > > >
> > >  >
> > > > "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes  architetti>"
><[hidden email]>  ha scritto:
> > > >
> > > >>Some very early, lazy and  useless notes and suggestions about a
possible
> > > >>port of  shoebot to android.
> > > >>
> > > >>With the  development of the scripting layer for android going on
> > > >>(  http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a
functional

> >  > >>python environment, I started to figure out whether it is going to  be
> > > >>possible someday to have shoebot working on google's  mobile os.
> > > >>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need,  let's say it's just for
> > > >>fun ;)
> > >  >>
> > > >>obviously cairo has not been ported to android,  and probably never will
> > > >>(way too heavy and  complex),
> > > >>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port would  probably require the cairo
> > > >>canvas to be replaced by  something else.
> > > >>It seems android uses skia (  http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
> > > >>level library for  2D graphics, it is open source and I think it could
> > >  >>replicate the basic functions of cairo, but skia api is not even  
>exposed
> > > >>through NDK and, more important, at present it has  no python bindings,
> > > >>though it seems it is in their  roadmap.
> > > >>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to  re-implement with
skia
> > > >>(e.g. fonts, images, etc.)
> >  > >>
> > > >>Another option I thought of could be  openvg
> > > >>( http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
> > >  >>The most complete open source implementation I know of is  ShivaVG
> > > >>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's  built on top of
OpenGL,
> > > >>and a port to android, though not  yet existing, could be done using
> > > >>OpenGL ES, and therefore  being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
> > > >>I tried an  attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack in
GLES

> > >  >>of some GL attributes implies patching the code and rewriting parts  of
> > > >>it in order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task  far too complex
> > > >>for me.
> > > >>There is a  commercial openvg implementation called Amanith
> > >  >>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an  
>experimental
> > > >>port to android
> > >  >>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657) that  
>I
> > > >>was able to run as simple test on my phone (but as I said  it is
> > > >>commercial).
> > > >>The nice aspect is  that it already exists a project that provides
python
> > >  >>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
> > >  >>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have  not
> > > >>tested it yet.
> > > >>
> > >  >>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler possibilities for  
replacing

> > > >>cairo on android that I didn't think of.
> >  > >>
> > > >>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a  rewrite as well, as of
> > > >>course there won't be a gtk  environment, but simple gui with python is
> > > >>already possible  on android, so I suppose that as long as the scripting
> > >  >>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really be  
>a
> > > >>possibility on android.
> > > >>
> >  > >>Other non-pure-python modules can be ported to android already  (PIL
> > > >>maybe?) but I must admit it's not a trivial task at  all.
> > > >>
> > > >>best, francesco
> > >  >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >  >>
> > > >>
> > >  >>_______________________________________________
> > >  >>Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > > >>[hidden email]
> >  >  
>>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >  > >
> > > > ----
> > > > Francesco Fantoni  Architetto
> > > > via s.giacomo, 38
> > > > 41121 modena /  italia
> > > > --      --
> > > > ph. &  fax.: +39059217554
> > > > web: www.hv-a.com
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> >  > > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >  > >
> > >
> > > I think an easier way would it be to  use
> > > http://organisms.be/NodeBox_for_OpenGL as a base
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > > Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> >  > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>


     
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: shoebot android someday?

Stuart Axon
Apologies if that doesn't make much sense, I should've proofread it :)

 S++



----- Original Message ----

> From: Stuart Axon <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 10:33:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [shoebot-devel] shoebot android someday?
>
> > From: "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes  architetti>"
> ><[hidden email]>
>
> >  To: [hidden email]
> >  Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 9:55:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [shoebot-devel]  shoebot android someday?
> >
> > though pyglet need ctypes that at  present is not part of SL4A  python
> >
> Also it's for Opengl, not  Opengl ES as android needs.
>
>
>
> > Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle  22.48 +0200, architetto  francesco fantoni
> > ha scritto:
> > >  cool!
> > > wasn't there already an  attempt to port shoebot on  pyglet?
> > >
> > > f.
> > >
>
> A while back I got it  rendering to a window in pyglet, but not
> really usable     (and  still using cairo for everything).
>
> Still, in future it would be useful to  be able to render onto
> OpenGL textures this way.
>
>
>
> I've had a  bit of a look at the nodebox code (just a little mind),
> and it looks the way  fill, stroke etc are just imported and share
> state through global  variables.
>
> In future I'd like to be able to do things like call one bot  from
> another (e.g. render a frame of another bot into rectangle).
>
> I  think with the nodebox approach state will be leaked and this
> won't be  possible (without having seperate python processes).
>
> Now... I might be  wrong and not actually understand their
> architecture, but if I'm right I  prefer our approach using classes.
>
>
> Anyway... it might not matter, as  at the moment we don't have a
> functioning release...but:
> It would be cool  if in future we
> could prove a nice architecture for supporting stuff  like
> drivers (e.g. for jython/pyglet) and solve the problem  of
> fragmentation of the nodeboxes :)
>
> [And not to forget; the ability  to add different grammars
> too].
>
>
>
> Oh - while I'm braindumping  this:  
> Something else to look at are the different ways of  using
> nodebox-gl:
>
> draw(canvas):
>    fill(...)
>
> And  nodebox-1/shoebot:
>
> draw():
>    fill()
>
>
> Actually canvas  is not a bad abstraction and we might want
> to consider it for a 'pure python'  mode.
> We'd really want to reconcile this if we want to make all
> the  libraries shared.
>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  > Il giorno lun, 20/09/2010 alle 13.54 -0600, Sebastian Oliva ha   scritto:
> > > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Architetto  Francesco  Fantoni
> > > > <[hidden email]>   wrote:
> > > > > I just found out that cairo has a skia backend, I  had  not noticed
> >before. Maybe porting a minimal cairo version to  android could be  done after
>
> >all, though probably not so  easily...
> > > > >
> > > >  >
> > > >  > "architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes   architetti>"

> ><[hidden email]>   ha scritto:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Some very early,  lazy and  useless notes and suggestions about a
> possible
> > >  > >>port of  shoebot to android.
> > > >  >>
> > > > >>With the  development of the scripting  layer for android going on
> > > > >>(   http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ ) that brings a
> functional
> > >  > >>python environment, I started to  figure out whether it is going to  
>be
> > > > >>possible  someday to have shoebot working on google's  mobile os.
> > > >  >>Actually I can't imagine no real use or need,  let's say it's just  
>for
> > > > >>fun ;)
> > > >  >>
> >  > > >>obviously cairo has not been ported to android,  and  probably never
>will
> > > > >>(way too heavy and   complex),
> > > > >>and as shoebot is cairo based, a port  would  probably require the
>cairo
> > > > >>canvas to be  replaced by  something else.
> > > > >>It seems android  uses skia (  http://code.google.com/p/skia/ ) as low
> > > >  >>level library for  2D graphics, it is open source and I think it  
>could
> > > >  >>replicate the basic functions of cairo,  but skia api is not even  
> >exposed
> > > > >>through  NDK and, more important, at present it has  no python
>bindings,
> >  > > >>though it seems it is in their  roadmap.
> > >  > >>I suppose a lot of things would be rather hard to   re-implement with

> skia
> > > > >>(e.g. fonts, images,  etc.)
> > >  > >>
> > > > >>Another option  I thought of could be  openvg
> > > > >>(  http://www.khronos.org/openvg/ ).
> > > >  >>The most  complete open source implementation I know of is  ShivaVG
> > > >  >>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg/). It's  built on top of
> OpenGL,
> > > > >>and a port to android, though not   yet existing, could be done using
> > > > >>OpenGL ES, and  therefore  being hardware accelerated, that's not bad.
> > > >  >>I tried an  attempt of porting it using android NDK, but the lack  in

> GLES
> > > >  >>of some GL attributes implies  patching the code and rewriting parts  
>of
> > > > >>it in  order to use OpenGL ES, and obviously it's a task  far too
>complex
> >  > > >>for me.
> > > > >>There is a  commercial  openvg implementation called Amanith
> > > >   >>(http://www.amanith.org/project.html). which has already an  
> >experimental
> > > > >>port to android
> > >  >   >>(http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.android.ndk/3657)  
>that  
>
> >I
> > > > >>was able to run as simple test on  my phone (but as I said  it is
> > > >  >>commercial).
> > > > >>The nice aspect is  that it  already exists a project that provides
> python
> > > >   >>bindings for both ShivaVG and Amanith vg
> > > >   >>(http://code.google.com/p/pyopenvg/) though I must admit I have  
not
> > > > >>tested it yet.
> > > > >>
> >  > >  >>I'm sure there are other smarter or simpler  possibilities for  
> replacing
> > > > >>cairo on android  that I didn't think of.
> > >  > >>
> > > >  >>All of the shoebot gui of course would need a  rewrite as well, as  
of

> > > > >>course there won't be a gtk  environment, but  simple gui with python
>is
> > > > >>already possible  on  android, so I suppose that as long as the
>scripting
> > > >   >>layer is further developed, more complex python programs can really  
>be  
>
> >a
> > > > >>possibility on android.
> >  > > >>
> > >  > >>Other non-pure-python modules  can be ported to android already  (PIL
> > > > >>maybe?)  but I must admit it's not a trivial task at  all.
> > > >  >>
> > > > >>best, francesco
> > > >   >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > >  >  >>
> > > > >>
> > > >   >>_______________________________________________
> > > >   >>Shoebot-devel mailing list
> > > > >>[hidden email]
> >  >  >  
> >>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >  >  > >
> > > > > ----
> > > > >  Francesco Fantoni  Architetto
> > > > > via s.giacomo,  38
> > > > > 41121 modena /  italia
> > > > >  --      --
> > > > > ph. &  fax.:  +39059217554
> > > > > web: www.hv-a.com
> > > > >   _______________________________________________
> > > > >  Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> >  >  > >
>http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >  >  > >
> > > >
> > > > I think an easier way  would it be to  use
> > > >  http://organisms.be/NodeBox_for_OpenGL as a base
> > > >   _______________________________________________
> > > >  Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> >  >  >
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net

> >  >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> >  > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Shoebot-devel  mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
> >
>
>
>      
> _______________________________________________
> Shoebot-devel mailing  list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
>


     
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net